WHICH WAY TO EQUITY? A Conversation with Dr. Doug Reeves

Q: Doug, when and how did you become interested in exploring inequities in grading practices?

During my teaching career, I was aware that different teachers had had wildly different grading policies.  It was unfair that students – for the same performance – could get different grades. 

Even though I had read the research, when I started doing the research, it became deeply alarming.  The seminal piece of research was when I would take the same set of student scores, and I’d ask teachers what’s the difference between who gets A’s and B’s and who gets D’s and F’s:  they would tell me work ethic, or work completion, or parental support, or intelligence – but it wasn’t any of those things.  The distinguishing element was the grading scale the teacher used, which is the very definition of inequitable and unfair practices.

Q:  Can you tell us about one of your biggest ah-ha equity moments?

When I was teaching, a lot of my students were new arrivals to the country.  When a child entered the class halfway through the semester, and they didn’t have a cumulative folder under their arm, we would accept them as they were and proceed from there.  But if another child with the same achievement profile had been with me the entire semester, that child would get systematically punished whereas the new arrival would get rewarded with a clean grade slate.  

Q:  Equity in education is such a frequent topic these days. What was the watershed moment for turning our attention towards equity?

I don’t think we’ve had it yet – we still have a deeply inequitable system.  I’m from Topeka, Kansas, the home of Brown vs. Board of Education.  People think everything must have gotten better after the case when, actually, things got worse.  My father knew people involved on both sides and a number of schools serving African American students were not only shut down – some staying that way for an entire year – but, as many as 40% of African American teachers and administrators lost their jobs.  Consequently, we know their descendents are under-represented in the teacher leadership pool.  It’s not unusual for people who look like me to have two or three generations of teachers in the family, but when your memory is that your grandmother or grandfather, or maybe even a parent, was laid off in 1954 after Brown v. Board of Education, that doesn’t leave a very good taste in your mouth.  I don’t think we’ve had a watershed moment yet – we’re still working towards equity, not very wisely in some cases.

Q:  What do you think prevents us from having the watershed moment?

Deeply entrenched attachment to the bell curve of blue birds, robins, and blackbirds, specifically the people who are served very, very well by the present system.  The people who most fight grading reform are not teachers – I think that’s an unfair reputation – but are privileged parents of privileged kids who see more kids qualifying for scholarships and more kids qualifying for college admission, and they don’t like that competition.  I see that all over the United States.  

Q:  What are two key teaching moves you would love to see happen in every classroom in America?

#1:  calling on students rather than asking students to raise their hands. The rule should be you raise your hand to ask a question, not to answer a question. Relying on raised hands to answer questions is a mark of grave inequity. Some people call this move ‘cold calling,’ but I would just call  it good and fair engagement.  You can do it with a smile, you don’t have to humiliate or embarrass anybody – there’s always time to phone a friend, give a student a minute of think time, or ask for a partial answer.  What’s not okay is to have kids who are checked out, and kids check out when they know you’re not going to call on them.  So #1 is calling on students fairly. #2 is evaluating students based on how they finish the semester, not the average.

If I could just pick two, those two things would be solid moves towards classroom equity.

Q:  Let’s talk a little more about getting rid of the average. What are the steps a teacher would take?

The first topic I want to be clear about:  I’m not saying to leave the gradebook blank – have all that practice in there, have the evidence in there.  It’s all worth knowing and communicating.  Oregon was an early adopter state, and has had standards for twenty year, and the essence of standards is that they are evaluated and then the grade gets rewarded.  

You don’t assign a grade for the average achievement between the beginning and end of the standard.  It’s just a fundamental principle of accuracy: if I am going to grade someone accurately, I grade them based on how they perform against the standard. 

Think of it like this: we’re coming up on track season. If at the state track championship, a kid is wins and the race, but we take away his medal because he had some bad times back in February, that’s ludicrous. 

If that student is proficient in May, yet we continue to grade them down for the mistakes they made earlier in the year, that’s inequitable.

The typical journey of a student is to struggle and struggle and then have a breakthrough.  The breakthrough is that learning typically happens because of content or feedback delivered by the teacher. If we really believe in resilience and perseverance, if we really believe in social-emotional learning, then we ought to be rewarding the breakthrough. When we use the average, we say breakthrough doesn’t matter and resilience doesn’t matter, because I’m still going to punish you for what you did 2-3 months ago.

Q: We have been coached that can not evaluate according to standards unless we set it up appropriately in the system, and we can’t set it up in the system until we are trained how to do that.  How do you respond to that?

In every grading system I know, teachers have the ability to override the algorithm that generates the automatic grade and enter their own evaluation on the final grade.  In most systems, we’re talking about nothing more than disabling the average function.  I think it’s good if teachers have a fundamental understanding of why the average is bad, and why the hundred-point scale is bad, but that doesn’t really require extensive training.  

Q:  So, you are arguing that teachers should have the gradebook as a piece of information but then, at grading time, enter their own evaluations? 

That is exactly what I’m saying.  It’s how you finish the race that counts.  

Q: And then, for concerned parents, how do they defend those choices?

When you encounter those privileged parents that want to talk about someone else’s grade:  how could that child earn the same grade as mine?  Or when those same parents reach out to your administrator, the two of you have to be unified in your response: “Mrs. Jones, I’m not going to talk to you about anyone else’s grade besides your own.  Number one: that’s unethical.  And number two:  we’re a standards-based district in a standards-based state.”  

So you don’t need to defend how you grade someone else’s kid, you only need to defend how you grade that parent’s kid.  And to the extent there is a hint of imperfection, those parents almost always find it to their advantage that you take into account how your child finished instead of letting the grade be held back by some of the challenges along the way.

Q: What are some of the pedagogical lessons you have learned from Covid-based education you hope to see brought forward to in-person classrooms?

The biggest lesson is relationships, relationships, relationships. Some of the best practices I saw during remote learning were teachers leaving their houses and going to find their students. Of course, they couldn’t do home visits, but they could do sidewalk visits or window visits. Some teachers used the telephone. The teachers that did that had the greatest impact. I saw schools that had 50% attendance rates in the fall of 2020, get up over 90% attendance with the same kids and the same parents. It was all about the human connection.

We also learned there is no way that technology can teach a six-year-old how to read. The promises of technology have always been overblown. All you have to do is look in the faces of students and teachers who came back in March and April for the first time in a year, and you saw what human connection can do. And not just in the classroom. In extracurricular activities, in play, in all of these other things that are the reason kids come to school…those are the social connections, and those are the things that really matter.

Finally, the lesson we should have learned, but I don’t think we really have is that not every standard is equal. This nonsense that says we’ll make up for lost time, by talking really fast and trying to frantically cover every standard. All you have time for is content exposure and there is zero evidence that says exposure leads to learning. 

At the secondary level, schools are following one of two paths: path #1: in the fall of 2021, they are going to have the same schedule, the same time allocation they had in the fall of 2019. They are essentially saying: We learned nothing. I can not push strongly enough against someone who thinks we can have the same schedule in the future as we’ve had in the past. 

Path #2: some schools are building interventions into their daily schedules. They are not afraid to identify the issues and recognize what we already know: if you don’t build interventions into the day – if you hold them after school, on Saturdays, or during the summer, the kids that need those interventions most, won’t come. There are schools who are building an hour, or two, or whatever is necessary, of content-area support into the daily schedule. 

Let’s face it.  We have students who are behind.  But we had students who were behind before Covid – now they’re even more behind.  Obviously, there was a large learning loss experienced by all but the most privileged students. The one question is: what are we going to do about it?

Dr. Douglas Reeves is the author of more than 40 books and 100 articles on education and leadership.  Twice named to the Harvard University Distinguished Authors Series, Doug has shared his research in 50 states and more than 40 countries.  He can be reached @DouglasReeves or at [email protected].

Would you like to learn more about these important topics? Here are some resources Doug recommends.

  1. Here is the professional organization led by Dr. Reeves. In it you will find articles, research, videos and more. https://www.creativeleadership.net.
  2. Karin Chenoweth‘s work includes a seminal collection of research entitled It’s Being Done: Urgent Lessons from Unexpected Schools, which studies 15 disparate schools from around the country and identifies the characters they share. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/677223._It_s_Being_Done_?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=NEqJ6fIIYB&rank=1
  3. Caitlin Flanagan wrote this article for last month’s issue of The Atlantic. In it, she discusses an unsettling adversary in the equity fight: parents. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/what-college-admissions-scandal-reveals/586468/

A Conversation with Dr. Steve Cook, part 2

Q: Steve, what are 1-2 practices you would like to see embedded in every Bend-La Pine classroom?

I would like to see a “Culture of Warm Demand” in every classroom – this is Zaretta Hammond’s work.  Her approach is applicable in every classroom.  

She has a graph that illustrates this concept:  on the X-axis, is expectations; on the Y-axis, relationships (see below).  And you want to have a classroom that has both high relationships and high expectations – those are the most effective classrooms.  

When you’re holding kids to high expectations, you set a standard for them that you won’t accept anything less from them than their very best. But you also commit to pouring everything you have as an educator into that student as an individual person. It is because of that anchor in great relationship that you are able to ask for great things.  

If you have that high expectations without that relationship, then you’re a drill sergeant.  If you have the relationships without the high expectations, then you wind up creating a culture of low expectations that can wind up being bigoted. You lose kids in those scenarios. 

Just loving kids is not enough.  That’s the difference: we want to love them, but we also need to hold them to such high expectations, they activate their potential. 

And if nothing more, you have to make the commitment: I’m going to get to know you and I’m going to care about you.  If kids are struggling, that has something that may have to do with the state their world is in right now.  Recognizing that for what it is and not taking it personally as an educator, is an important step.  I have to decide that I am going to care about each student in all circumstances, and never give up on those expectations.  That’s how you transform lives.  

To me, that’s the starting place.  You don’t have to know specific strategies, you don’t have to read tons of books – the starting place is the relationships.  We’ve all had students triggers us emotionally, and we’ve all triggered students.  We have to be able to go back to that situation and see it for what it is, and then figure out how we can talk about it, how we can get through it so our relationship can still be established and move on. When I hold a student to high expectations, it can not be oppressive, but must still be based in the care I have for you as a human being.

Q: Can you tell us a little more about the concept of bigotry?  If both aspects of the Culture of Warm Demand are not in place, how does the relationship begin to possess the characteristics of bigotry?

If you have high expectations and no relationships, Hammond describes you as a technocrat.  We’ve all had teachers who demand and demand and demand.  But they don’t reach out or try to connect with me.  I had a biology teacher during my sophomore year of high school that never ever – in 180 days of school – learned my name.   The feeling you get when someone doesn’t even know who you are – your name, let alone any details about your life – is one that communicates both parties are not equally valued in this system.  If we aren’t both equally valued, then the power imbalance is one of oppression.

Take it the other direction – if you have this culture that you’re just going to love kids and be emotionally available to them, and be supportive, then you’re only attending to the relationships and there are not high expectations.   Those students are being oppressed similarly – they aren’t achieving the potential they could.  And you’re creating an environment in which students may not know those opportunities exist for them.  If you don’t push them towards opportunities, that is its own version of bigotry.  It’s a balancing act on both ends of the spectrum.

How do I have high expectations AND strong relationships?  That’s what we always have to ask ourselves with each individual student in our care.

Q: These concepts are obviously very important to you. How have they played out in your own life?

With my children, I had to take a very different disciplinary approach with one son versus the other.  It was a delicate walk and, to nurture the relationship, I had to approach one on an adult level, with adult language.  If I did that with my other son, he would have been confused and wondered what I was doing.  That goes back to the platinum rule – I had to know and interact with my sons in different ways because they had different personalities; they were different people.  I was more effective if I treated them how they wanted to be treated.

In another example, I know that bigotry can come from a lack of engagement opportunities, or during instruction. One of the most offensive things I ever said to a student was a glib, sexist remark that she had the courage to call me out on later.  I had never thought about the moment through that lens,  but for me to do anything but be respectful, and apologize, and own it would have meant I failed.  She stepped up to her challenge – she came to me and told me I hurt her feelings and gave me the opportunity to grow from it.  My challenge was to be respectful and accepting, and honor her courage.

Q:  We’ve talked a lot about relationships and expectations.  Let’s think about the larger educational systems in place that support or prevent those outcomes. What are the most important components of an educational system that is able to identify and act on inequities within?

Just this morning, I was in two elementary schools and we were talking about Covid and how it has exacerbated so many of the systemic moves that inhibit a student’s ability to succeed.  

Think about this interview environment between me and you – I’m in a closed space with just my laptop; nobody is interrupting me, and we have the opportunity to fully engage with each other.  

But then we think about some of the environments our students are learning in.  When we quarantine kids and send them home, or we’re in remote learning, what about those kids that have a lot of noise and interruption?  Or what about those kids that don’t have anybody at home able to engage with them?  What happens to those kids and how do we as a system  start to recognize how our system perpetuates those inequities.  How do we set up our system so kids can be just as successful in their own environments as in ours?

I think about the research on reading scores, conducted when essentially the entire country was remote.  Some of our most affluent students actually scored better than if they would have been in school.  It was actually beneficial for them to be in lockdown because their growth rate was higher.  Now compare that to some of our highest poverty students who lost so much ground during that time – their test scores regressed 1-2 grade levels.  How are we going to look at our systems during and after Covid to address those disparities?

Covid has shown us there is no more important time in the history of education to start looking at the moves we make so that no student is left behind, regardless of any circumstances about who they are racially, culturally, socio-economically, or what gender they identify with – none of it should matter.  We’re starting to peel back these layers and say, “We’ve got to do better.”  

I think this is going to be a transformational time for us.  We’ve got to start fixing some of these systems.  It’s an exciting time for us and will continue to be so as long as we strive to take advantage of the opportunities here.

Q:  We’re already seeing systemic responses that run counter to that thinking.  There is so much energy around wanting a schedule that enables teachers to serve students better, but the schedule has already been built for next year and there’s a lot of reluctance to change that.  

The system of public education is built within hundreds of years of inertia.  A whole lot of people look at us and wonder why we want to change anything at all – they say, “Look at me.  I turned out just fine.”  

Within the last year, so many districts have had to change so many things so many times.  But Covid forced our hand.  We’ve proven that we can change quickly. Our biggest challenge is to elevate the reasons why we should change to the same sense of urgency as Covid gave us.

That’s the real question and that’s what we’re going to have to keep demanding of ourselves.  I know how I should eat.  I know exactly how l should eat.  But I don’t always choose to do that.  And I’ve only been trying to make consistently better choices for half as long as the public education system has existed.

We can’t let this opportunity get away.  This is the biggest chance we’ve had in the recent history of public education to profoundly change the environments our kids experience every day.

Zaretta Hammond’s Graph